People Who Observe "No Right Turn on Red"

"Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney" (braddelaparker) 01/15/2014 at 15:12 • Filed to: None

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I hope that something or someone somewhere makes your life a little worse each time you do so. I'm sure all of the Boy Scouts here on Oppo will come lambast those of us who understand pragmatism, but I do not care: no right turn on red is some serious time-wasting bullshit.

For Sweden > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:14

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Many jurisdictions do not allow for right-on-red, the most famous likely being New York City.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:14

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Lol. NEVER MOVE TO SEATTLE.

On the one hand, if you live here you will probably never be cut off by some a-hole in a hurry. On the other hand everyone is super duper timid when it comes to shit like this.

getchapopcorn > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:15

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What follows is in no way legal advice. I would suggest taking this post down.

CAR_IS_MI > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:16

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I am confused. Are you mad at:

1. people who don't turn right on red when the lane is clear and they are legally allowed to do so?

2. People who don't turn right on red when there is a sign saying "no right on red"?

3. People who turn right on red when there is a sign saying "no right on red"?

4. People who turn left on one way roads going to the right?

ttyymmnn > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:16

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Come to Austin, where you can legally turn LEFT on red, provided you are leaving and entering a one way street.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:16

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...

For following the rules? Rules that if broken can result in a large fine? No turn on red signs are generally put in place for a reason. Not because they felt like putting one there.

bkempert > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:17

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In an urban setting I understand it. Easy to miss a pedestrian while you are desperately scanning for that spot to rush in between traffic. In a less busy area, though, it doesn't make as much sense. Around schools though? I'll allow it. I'd rather wait another 2 minutes than have some jackass not see the 10 yr old kid in the crosswalk.

corvairsomeday2 > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:17

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I'm a Boy Scout...and I don't like those folks either. Of course, if there's actually a sign prohibiting it or a specific law on the books, then a law is a law.

deekster_caddy > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:17

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It all depends on the intersection and the town. Some intersections have poor visibility and high speed travel with busy pedestrian crossings. In our town, you'll get a ticket for going where there is a "No" sign. Cops watch all the intersections randomly and often. It's a "pedestrian friendly" town and you will get a stopped for running a crosswalk with somebody standing in it or a No Right on Red.

Therefore, I'm trained to observe all No Right Turn on Red signs. Even when I'm pissing off the people behind me.

For the most part they don't put the signs up unless they are needed.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > CAR_IS_MI 01/15/2014 at 15:17

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Number 2 would be my best bet.

S H: now with more letters! > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:17

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Fuck people who obey stop signs, too! I mean, as long as you can see that there is no one coming, why should you stop?

Also, one-way streets, what is the deal with those?

KB Garage > CAR_IS_MI 01/15/2014 at 15:18

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I share your confusion.

CAR_IS_MI > ttyymmnn 01/15/2014 at 15:18

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Many states have this law, just most people are oblivious to it, including most law enforcement.

D > getchapopcorn 01/15/2014 at 15:18

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nevermind

CAR_IS_MI > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 01/15/2014 at 15:19

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Thats my guess to but I need clarification because #4 is taking a close second

quarterlifecrisis > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:20

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They're there for a reason. That being said, Durham, NC has got it together in a couple places, where there's an electronic no right turn on red sign. It actually works out great, can't turn right on red when there's a fuckload of traffic and it generally is ill advised to add more cars to the mix, and can turn right on red the other 95% of the time.

PanchoVilleneuve ST > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:22

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But it's the law.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > CAR_IS_MI 01/15/2014 at 15:23

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I don't know if its legal in OR but i do it anyways and so do most other people including law enforcement, so if it is no one cares.

EDIT: just checked I guess it is legal.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > feather-throttle-not-hair 01/15/2014 at 15:24

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See, that's what I don't get: people will drive like assholes all over the place, and then not execute on something like this. Baffled.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > CAR_IS_MI 01/15/2014 at 15:25

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People who don't turn right on red when there is a sign saying "no right on red".

MooseKnuckles > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:26

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Perfectly legal in Canada. Just sayin'.

Textured Soy Protein > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:27

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I'm fine with people obeying no right turn on red signs.

But I do have a related pet peeve: intersections where you can turn right on red, there's 2 lanes, but no dedicated right turn lane.

All too often, I'll be coming up on an intersection like this, with my blinker on, there's one car in front of me, and this person doesn't move to the left. So I have to sit through the whole red light cycle.

oldirtybootz > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:28

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The law is the law, I'm not getting a ticket because you're impatient. Granted, most "no right on reds" are bullshit and I don't always observe them, but I make sure it's safe to do so. Some intersections should absolutely be this way though.

There's one intersection in my town that I've been considering complaining about. Heading west, left turns aren't allowed but heading east you're allowed to make a left and you simply shouldn't be. There have been times that the light turns green and it turns red again before you can get though the intersection because somone help up traffic making the left. Coming west, those people making the left can be downright dangerous.

BeaterGT > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:28

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I tried reiterating the same sentiment to the NJ police officer, but he wasn't having it. I do it all the time because fuck the stupid law and their stupid fucking signs.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > ttyymmnn 01/15/2014 at 15:29

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One of the things I love about Austin. Pragmatism: it works.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 01/15/2014 at 15:30

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Ah, indeed, I'm forgetting the "Municipalities Govern By Reason and Only By Reason" clause.

thebigbossyboss > ttyymmnn 01/15/2014 at 15:30

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We do this also in Canuckistan.

CAR_IS_MI > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:31

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So people driving in a resonable manner and actually following the law annoy you?

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > bkempert 01/15/2014 at 15:31

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It's an urban area but it's not a particularly busy intersection. And it turned what should have been maybe a 2 minute wait into (quite literally) a 15 minute excursion. Light too short + no right on red = clusterfuck

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > corvairsomeday2 01/15/2014 at 15:31

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Laws are not laws.

jariten1781 > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:34

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Why not just ignore red lights entirely if you're going to ignore the 'no right on red' signs? I'm sure you've sat at a red light plenty of times when you could have safely gone through straight or left.

Hypocrite.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:34

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One of my biggest driving pet peeves is the "left on green arrow only". Why do I have to sit and wait if I can see that nobody is coming for at least a good quarter mile or so.

Number 2 pet peeve, the people who block the right lane when you are allowed to turn on red. There's a road by me that doesn't go straight through. You have to make a left then another right less than a block later to stay on the same road. But some people insist on getting to the front of the pack and end up blocking the folks who want to turn so they can continue down the road.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > S H: now with more letters! 01/15/2014 at 15:35

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Hope you never step 1 mph over the speed limit!

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > quarterlifecrisis 01/15/2014 at 15:36

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Being there for a reason doesn't necessarily make it a good reason. It's a low speed, generally pedestrian-less intersection, and it was a 15 minute wait at the light today. There may be a reason for existence, but mere existence doesn't make that reason good.

Where have all the lightweights gone? > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:36

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I'm almost certain 9/10 times this happens, you're sitting at a light with a red light camera.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > PanchoVilleneuve ST 01/15/2014 at 15:37

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Of which there has never been a needless, senseless, or poor example.

area man > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:38

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Personally I've never seen a "No Turn on Red" sign where it wasn't legitimately dangerous to attempt one.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Where have all the lightweights gone? 01/15/2014 at 15:39

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Today must be the exception, although I see it at both lights with and without cameras.

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:39

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I disagree. There's one intersection right next to where I went to uni, where the visibility is shit for seeing northbound traffic, and because of that, I refuse to turn right into the northbound lane. It's bad enough that I would have to pull the nose of my (admittedly small) DD into the lane, in order to see what's coming. Right on red there is unsafe, at best.

quarterlifecrisis > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:39

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See, that there is a time when adding that bit of specificity to the original post instead of preparing to lambast everyone that came in and said "You should probably do the legal thing." (Also, just realized after typing that that you use dlambast in the OP...good vocab choice.) If you're talking about a massive intersection with a lot of foot traffic that is prone to delays, the practice makes sense. If you're at the desolate intersection of dirt road and wagon trail...yeah...a bit pointless.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 01/15/2014 at 15:40

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Number two is a big one. Sometimes you need to be in the right lane to turn right immediately after the intersection, but plenty of times when I'm in the left lane I see someone in the right lane carry on for days after the intersection.

JGrabowMSt > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:40

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Then you'd hate me. There are a lot of no turn on red signs with time frames on them around me. 10 minutes left? Don't care, I'll wait. Why? Because the asshole taxi drivers cut me off all the time. If I inconvenience them for 45 seconds? SMD. They should be happy that I'm killing time so they can collect more money.

You sir, should be more patient.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:42

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I agree with you, though here in KC we have robocops at every light looking for an excuse to send you a $100 ticket, so we can't just do a proper stop and turn.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > jariten1781 01/15/2014 at 15:42

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Largely because the placement of "No Right Turn on Red" signs, while I'm sure well-meaning, is often arbitrary, and there exists times where you can turn right on red; there exists no time when you're legally allowed to run a red light straight through.

Trolling analog denied.

Jayhawk Jake > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:44

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I'm sorry for observing posted signs and driving in a safe, reasonable, law abiding manner.

bkempert > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:45

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Ah, that's a completely different story. Poor civic engineering doesn't mean that "no right on red" is a bad law. Change the intersection management.

Bad Idea Hat > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:45

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Every "no right on red" sign here is located in a good location. Generally shitty viewpoint, traffic, heavy pedestrian use, etc. I may use the speed limit as a general suggestion, and other signs can become "follow if able", but that's one sign that usually makes sense.

What gets me is that some of our signs say " NO TURN ON RED except curb lane."

Jayhawk Jake > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:46

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By the same logic I should run red lights when I see no one coming?

Or speed when the posted speed limit is low?

Or not stop at stop signs when I don't see traffic coming the other way?

Don't be mad at drivers for following the law, be mad at the law.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > CAR_IS_MI 01/15/2014 at 15:46

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Absolutely. There's nothing reasonable about sitting at light and not turning red when it's safe to do so. It may be the law, and it may even be well-intentioned, but that doesn't make it reasonable.

You're asked to make judgments and use discretion in every other facet of driving, and yet when faced with arbitrary laws all is gone? I sure hope you folks don't ever go 63 in a 60.

Jayhawk Jake > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:47

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Wat.

Jayhawk Jake > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:48

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So what? Your argument holds no water, even if you don't agree with the law doesn't change the fact that it is the law. You can't get mad at people for obeying the sign, they don't want to get a ticket.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the sign, I'm just saying you're wrong to criticize people for following the law.

Jagvar > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:49

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I got a ticket for making an illegal right turn on red once. Do I obey the signs now? You'd better believe it.

Jayhawk Jake > MooseKnuckles 01/15/2014 at 15:50

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He's referring to places where a sign is posted that says 'No Right Turn on Red'

CAR_IS_MI > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:54

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In some instances you are right, but are there not times where these signs would have been placed for a reason, persay a blind turn or some other factor which may have caused many accidents in the past due to people turning right on red.

jariten1781 > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 15:57

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Man, you like to argue both sides don't you:

You're asked to make judgments and use discretion in every other facet of driving, and yet when faced with arbitrary laws all is gone?

MooseKnuckles > Jayhawk Jake 01/15/2014 at 16:02

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Ah, then in that case I wait for the green

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > oldirtybootz 01/15/2014 at 16:06

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Obviously it is the law, and I can't really fault people for following it, but this resulted in a 15 minute wait at a light that should have taken 30 seconds to get through. Maybe next time I'll go knock on the windows of everyone in front of me, give them my car, and offer to pay for their potential tickets if they'll just turn.

S H: now with more letters! > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:07

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I didn't state that I refrain from breaking the law, I was merely mocking you for getting angry at people who do.

Maybe it differs where you live, but here they do not post "No Turn On Red"s needlessly.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > jariten1781 01/15/2014 at 16:07

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Yes, yes I do.

King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:08

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Pragmatism is great; getting a ticket for not observing the sign is not.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:09

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Not with you on this one buddy.

I got a ticket for this once, I'd never been to the intersection before and I didn't notice the sign saying no right turn.(the placement is normally 4 car lengths behind where you would stop to make the turn, that's my only gripe with them)

He got me right away. Sucked.

If you are behind me and it's a no right on red and you're angry, get comfy buddy I'm waiting for the green.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Jayhawk Jake 01/15/2014 at 16:10

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Sure hope you've never gone a hair over the speed limit, Jake.

Dusty Ventures > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:11

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Around here pretty much every "no right on red" sign is there because the visibility to the left is shit, so it's difficult-bordering-on-impossible to tell if there's an approaching car from the left without sticking your nose into the intersection. So yes, I do obey those signs.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > bkempert 01/15/2014 at 16:12

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I see them in lots of bad places, but that's certainly not to say that they're all in bad places.

Which brings me to my ultimate request, which is to use discretion. Okay, notice that there's a "No Right on Red" sign and take that into consideration and use extra caution when turning. Fine with that. Perhaps a step too far for some, still, but I'm a big fan of thinking.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Jayhawk Jake 01/15/2014 at 16:12

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Apology accepted, although I reject the assertion that the only way to drive in a safe and reasonable manner is in a law abiding one.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > quarterlifecrisis 01/15/2014 at 16:13

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Well, it would absolutely go a long way to ad that specificity, but this was a 10 second vent/minor troll job.

What I'd really like to see is the use of discretion. Okay, notice that there's a "No Right on Red" sign and take that into consideration and use extra caution when turning. Fine with that. Perhaps a step too far for some, still, but I'm a big fan of thinking.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully 01/15/2014 at 16:15

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And you're using discretion and I'm absolutely fine with that. Let me correct this to "People Who Blindly Observe Without Any Thought". There are absolutely intersections where you shouldn't turn on red, but there are plenty where you safely could.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > area man 01/15/2014 at 16:15

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I've seen hordes.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Jayhawk Jake 01/15/2014 at 16:17

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Oh, dear lord, there's no rational basis for my argument here.

But, let me say this:

What I'd really like to see is the use of discretion. Okay, notice that there's a "No Right on Red" sign and take that into consideration and use extra caution when turning. I'm fine with that, and that's exactly what I want. I don't want people going Evel Knievel into every right turn, but a little discretion goes a long way. I'm just not a fan of blind allegiance to laws, people, things, or ideas in any form.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Dusty Ventures 01/15/2014 at 16:18

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A combination of discretion and the signs are fine by me.

Jayhawk Jake > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:19

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I have, but why should I have to defend that?

It's a risk I chose to take. I don't get mad at people who don't, and that's where I take issue with your statement here. You're bashing people for following the law.

If you were ranting that people turn without signalling, I'd agree with you. If you were ranting that people are driving 15 under the speed limit I'd agree with you. But ranting that people are following the law, while at the same time lambasting those of us that are quick to point out that they are just following the law, I can't agree with.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/15/2014 at 16:20

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I'm going to print up some business cards with my information on them and start handing them out around town:

"If it's same to turn on a red where there's a sign prohibiting it and you have photo evidence that I was behind you in the line, I'll pay for your ticket."

Jayhawk Jake > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:20

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It's not the only way, but there's no need to bitch when someone follows the law

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider 01/15/2014 at 16:20

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No, it's not particularly pragmatic to get an easily avoidable ticket, but I'm ranting and I'm on the internet so I don't care about hypocrisy because I'm entitled to shit!

oldirtybootz > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:21

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Well that's an option. I see where you're coming from, I personally can't stand when people slavishly follow the speed limit. I was late to work today partly because a guy in front of me insisted on following the 40mph limit. I don't expect people to break the law just because I'm impatient, as much as I would like them to it's just wishful thinking.

People are oblvious to the world around them while they drive and unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it. I absolutely sympathize with your anger towards them though.

quarterlifecrisis > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:22

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Thinking. Psh.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:22

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Will you pay for the increase on my insurance premiums as well? That ticket came with points (which are thankfully long, long gone).

I only expect you to cover the difference.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Jayhawk Jake 01/15/2014 at 16:24

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I just think that, when you can see that there's a clear inefficiency being created by an arbitrary law that which, when broken, has no negatively societal impact if you use discretion when breaking it, break the shit.

Perhaps being upset is wrong; I'm disappointed. I want so much more for the world than world than this. I want us to be free!

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/15/2014 at 16:25

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Will a blowjob suffice for the insurance payments? Because that sounds like more paperwork than it's worth.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > oldirtybootz 01/15/2014 at 16:27

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Honestly, speed limit following is something that I'm way more okay with because it's a much more difficult situation in which to discern what's the right speed to go and what's dangerous and what isn't. But the right on red, man, if you can use enough judgment to successfully navigate a right on red where there isn't a sign, you can handle it when there is!

Jayhawk Jake > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:30

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I don't disagree with you. I just don't like that you are bitching about a sign while also insulting people who follow the sign.

The sign? Fine, it's dumb. It might be in a dumb place. I'm sure there was a reason for it to be put there, even if it's efficacy is questionable now. If you have an issue with the sign, give your local government a call about it. Be proactive, being all anarchist and 'eff da police' about it doesn't do any good.

I wouldn't turn right on red if a sign told me not to, just like I wouldn't run a red light if there was no need for it to be red (which happens a lot here). It's that simple. Speeding? Okay, I do it from time to time, but honestly I find myself doing it far less often than I used to.

I don't know that I've come across a 'no right on red' intersection where I didn't see the point of the sign. Maybe there's a lull in traffic that makes it seem safe, but I can't be mad at people that follow the sign.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Jayhawk Jake 01/15/2014 at 16:33

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Whoa, you want me to actually use my frustration in a constructive manner to affect change to solve the problems I bitch about? What country do you think this is?

To be honest, though, this was a 30 second post of frustration immediately after I got out of the car, and the responses received were as expected, but a little more turnt up than I expected, and I can't resist a solid, pointless argument where I don't believe half of what I'm saying.

KB Garage > Textured Soy Protein 01/15/2014 at 16:38

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Know what's worse? When that person turns right after the light changes to green when traffic has been clear literally the whole time. And 90% of the time, the person is on their phone.

oldirtybootz > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:41

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The issue I have with that is all the red light cameras these days. Sometimes you can't tell while sitting at a light if there's a camera or not and it isn't worth the risk. There's also the possibility of a cop sitting where you couldn't see.

As far as speed limits go, if the road conditions are safe and you're arbitrarily following a 40mph limit on a stretch of road with good visibility and 50+mph traffic, you're a dickface. At the very least, pull the fuck over when I ride your ass.

Jayhawk Jake > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:43

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So if I knew someone was a pedofile, I should just murder them?

There's no negative social impact, I mean it's a pedo, that's not good.

It's just this holier than thou attitude you are portraying that I take issue with. This 'I am the law' attitude. I get your point, and I agree with you barring I haven't seen the sign in question: the sign is probably pointless. But to come on here and say 'Oh, you people that observe the law? I hope you have miserable shitty lives for doing that' is just excessive to me.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Jayhawk Jake 01/15/2014 at 16:52

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Nothing like a good old slippery slope fallacy to break up the afternoon!

You have a problem with me sounding holier than though (I am), I have a problem with blind allegiance. There's a midpoint here, which is all I really care about, because I don't really espouse the extreme statements I'm making.

I have absolutely no desire for anyone's life to be worse because they obeyed a law that I disagree with and that inconvenienced me, although I thought I had made that clear by attempting to word it rather facetiously.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > oldirtybootz 01/15/2014 at 16:55

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I don't disagree, but I've ruffled enough panties today by suggesting that breaking the law is okay, so I figured I'd save face by fighting that a little bit.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 16:59

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LOL, maybe if i got one everytime i had to pay the extra insurance... I pay by the day...

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/15/2014 at 17:01

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I have very little dignity, but I don't have that little! Looks like I'll be stuck on red.

oldirtybootz > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 17:08

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Well I contradicted myself by saying the law is the law and then admitting to breaking it. I'm what I consider an aggressive defensive driver. I "play offense" in a way, trying to set myself up to catch green lights and I admittedly speed, but I'm very conscious of the drivers around me and try to be as courteous as possible. I definitely have some road rage going on too.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > oldirtybootz 01/15/2014 at 17:11

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Contradiction is the essence of the hour in this post, it seems.

oldirtybootz > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 17:15

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Haha you must have known you'd need the flamesuit for this one.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > oldirtybootz 01/15/2014 at 17:17

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Flame suit was engaged from the time I typed "People", except the backlash was even more vitriolic than expected. I thought about really ruffling some feathers by just going overboard, but I resisted my trolling tendencies and left it at a rant that I ran way farther with than I actually believed, lol.

Korea Miéville > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/15/2014 at 18:43

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You should move to Albuquerque (assuming you don't already)! These signs are routinely ignored, or at least, those who do obey them are a tiny minority. One time I obeyed a No Right Turn on Red because a police car was right behind me — and he honked at me to go!

That said, I do obey the sign in my neighborhood, because it is actually very dangerous to try to turn on red at that intersection (blocked visibility + fast traffic). People nevertheless do ignore those signs, which is why there's a gigantic flipover/injury/fatality accident there once every few months.

Korea Miéville > jariten1781 01/15/2014 at 18:49

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I was at a red light once that was unusually long. It was on a small, deserted road intersecting with another deserted road. I was waiting to turn left. I waited and waited. After several minutes it occurred to me that the light may be defective. I told myself I should just go through it already, since there were no other cars within sight, yet I couldn't bring myself to do it. Finally I made a right turn onto the other road, then a U-turn, which somehow was justifiable in my mind. I've never felt more like a goddamn mindless citizen drone.

bkempert > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/16/2014 at 08:34

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Maybe the answer is somewhere in between. Obviously "No" right on red is a hard-fast option to never allow it. If instead you institute some sort of "Right on red with caution" signs more often (I've seen something similar before) then we could avoid these situations more often. You'll still get the idiots who don't pay attention, but those are the people who don't pay attention and STILL turn right no red with the "no turn" signs. I would love to see the data (if it exists) on the effectiveness of "warning" type signs in these situations. Sort of like using proper roundabouts instead of four-way stops when applicable (i.e. England's switch to them).

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/16/2014 at 09:15

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HAHAHAHA

Btw, I waited patiently at a no-turn-on-red this morning.

screwme > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/16/2014 at 09:44

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Seems like everytime I need to pull into a gas station, it's just through the intersection and on the right. I pull up to the intersection in the right lane, and people get pissed at me. SORRY!

If I can turn right and get back to the station, I will, but there's usually a median.

I hoon, therefore I am > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/16/2014 at 17:40

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I've gotten the triple crown of red light tickets (left, straight, right), and by far the worst is no left turn on red. I can see the no right on some intersections where visibility is limited, but there are VERY few instances in which you shouldn't be allowed to turn left when your direction otherwise has a green light.

BTW, all three of my tickets were BS. The no-right turn was literally a split second before my light (highway offramp) turned green - the other damn signal was yellow, and it was for cars to turn to enter the highway (aka there was no possibility of a car being in the lane I was entering).

The straight was in a 79 Big Bronco with one working brake, so stopping was definitely not happening in the amount of real estate available when the light turned yellow on me.

The no-left was in the middle of nowhere at night. I looked left, right, left, right, then went when I saw only one set of headlights a few hundred yards in the distance. Of course it was a cop.

And we Phoenicians have it worst along the light rail - they installed left turn signals at every intersection, so people waste an ungodly amount of time sitting at a red with NO traffic anywhere near. Needless to say, I run them at every opportunity.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/16/2014 at 19:50

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Some asshole nearly ran into me turning right on a no-turn-on-red sign. Few more seconds, me and my bike may have been integrated into some dude's Camry.